“My parents spanked me, and I turned out okay!”
God, how I loathe this argument in favor of corporal punishment.
I wasn’t spanked as a child. If someone had set up a nanny cam in our home between the time I was in, oh, first grade, and the time my mother finally left the no-good sack of shit my father was at the time, it would have recorded frequent occasions of what these days would be considered savage child abuse. My father liked to drink, which was a problem because he was not a happy drunk. As his alcohol level increased, he got in turn gregarious, boisterous, morose, and angry. When he was toward the end of that scale, he could get furiously pissed off at anything.
During my childhood, my father ran a series of pubs into the ground. He liked to be the proprietor of the local watering hole, but he wasn’t a very good businessman, so we moved around a lot as he started place after place with much enthusiasm and high hopes, only to see everything shuttered and me having to change schools again when the initial excitement of a new business had worn off and the money stopped making it to the suppliers and the power company again. I suspect this had a great deal to do with what I now, with my adult knowledge, understand was a latent cycle of low self-esteem and depression. It didn’t take much to put him in a bad mood—a pub patron upstaging him or making a light-hearted joke at his expense, that sort of thing—and then the hair trigger was set.
I was his first-born, and after my mother I was the biggest target around that couldn’t fight back and kick his ass. (The one time he picked a fight with a patron he ended up getting cold-cocked and laid out on the floor of the pub in just one hit. The guy warned him not to be stupid, and only hit my father in self-defense when he didn’t take repeated warnings. That didn’t do much for his self-esteem that week, let me tell you.) It didn’t work in my favor that I was shy, bookish, and in many ways not the rough-and-tough son he would have preferred. Sometimes it was stuff that I said or did, but more often it was something I didn’t say or do and should have, in his opinion. Then the belt would come out, and he’d beat the shit out of me. Not just “a spanking”, or “a slap or two on the butt”. We’re talking five or ten minutes of continuous and indiscriminate application of the belt on any exposed part of the body. Struggling pissed him off and made him hit harder. Staying passive and not showing the proper level of distress was taken as defiance or implication that he didn’t hit hard enough, and that made him hit harder too.
But here’s what I realized at long last, with many years between me and that wretched childhood of mine: he was never the bad guy in his own mind. He was never an abuser in his own eyes. There were always the classic make-up actions borne of the shame of knowing you’ve gone too far: ice cream consolation, promises of future fun, and half-hearted apologies that weren’t really apologies because they always placed the responsibility for his loss of control in my court. See what you made me do? That hurt me way more than it hurt you. Why can’t you just listen to what I’m telling you? In his own eyes, he was the stern but loving disciplinarian, straightening out a defiant kid that had stepped too far out of line by disrespecting parental authority. I never understood the reasoning, of course, at eight or ten or twelve years old. I only understood that I was a wimpy disappointment of a son who spent too much time with his nose in a book, and that it was wise to become invisible when he tromped up the stairs after a long evening tending bar.
And here’s another thing I realized long after the fact: I don’t remember the good times with him.
I’m sure there were some. I have pictures from my childhood that show us all on vacation, or at local amusement parks, at parties, out playing with cousins in backyard pools on family visits—but I hardly remember any of those moments, and I don’t recall much in the way of happy things from that time. What I do remember are the beatings, and being scared of my dad most of the time, and the physical and mental effort to go out of my way to not cross paths with him.
I’m sure he loved me and my siblings. But I don’t remember the acts of love. I remember the open hand and the belt, and the tears, and the late-night huddled fear.
And that’s why the idea of hitting my children makes me physically sick.
There is no clear delineation between “necessary discipline” and “abuse”. Physical violence is always abuse. It doesn’t teach anything but fear and resentment, and it will always, always, always come back to you in some form.
“My parents spanked me, and I turned out okay!”
Bullshit. You turned out okay despite the corporal punishment, not because of it. And don’t say there’s a difference between your spankings and my abuse, because then you’re operating a really slippery moral sliding scale, and I can guarantee you that my father too was convinced at the time that what he was going was an unpleasant but necessary parental duty to recalibrate my moral compass. You know, so I’d turn out okay as an adult. What you need to do is to take that justification of “appropriate” violence and realize that what you’re doing is to establish what level of physical and mental pain is okay to inflict on your child intentionally. The answers should always and unambiguously be none.
My father died over fifteen years ago, in his early fifties, alone and eaten up with cancer. He’s buried in a welfare plot somewhere in Frankfurt. I met him only once after my mom left him. When I saw him again, he was in his early fifties and in bad health, and I was in my early twenties and in prime shape, so the power imbalance went the other way, and there was no animosity. I don’t feel anything other than pity when I think of him now. I should have had a good childhood, and he should have had a loving family and children and grandchildren by his side when he got sick and died, but it was all wasted, and it was all due to things solely in his control, and it’s the saddest fucking thing in the world.
I was hit as a child, and I turned out okay. Eventually. After a long time and much perspective, and after having kids of my own. But that shit leaves scars in the head that won’t heal, ever. And from one parent to another, I’m telling you that you don’t want to risk putting those scars there. Because love and fear can’t take up the same space, and what you want your children to feel when they hear you walking up the stairs is the former, not the latter. Hitting doesn’t teach a child anything, at least not anything close to what you think it will teach them.
“I blame the parents for a complete lack of discipline during formative years that causes the rest of society to have to deal with these children until they develop their own discipline or become guests of the state.”
I would add, “or dead”. But shortbus just about summed it up right there. And to paraphrase his final line, the worst abuse is complete lack of interest, or discipline, or responsibility. That right there is why Chicago is Chicago.
What form should discipline take? Must force be used or is reason enough? There’s no right answer to that question though you think yours is. But, different strokes for different folks, as it were.
God provided His children with the instinct to protect, provide, nurse, and nurture their young. In humans, the capacity for love is added and when those concepts are combined, individual methods become just that, individualized for success. But when they are not present or are removed by outside forces, the chances of failure and the addition of one more goblin, or ward of the state, or resident of the cemetery, becomes a sad but safe bet.
Perhaps Mr. Filthie needs a nap.
I think it was rather polite of Marko to not reply to anonymouse with “Shut up, nasty little leg.”
Then there’s the opposite. Some pasty faced flit sanctimoniously proclaiming he was NEVER spanked and he turned out just fine!
Buddy – you’re a house husband that writes crappy science fiction for other effeminate pasty faced flimps like John Scalzi! LOL! Are you going to start posing in a dresses too? Maybe start talking like a fake surfer dude?
I’m sorry – but take your feral kids and go fuck a train. If you don’t discipline your kid and they go off on me – I will do it for you and you sure as hell WON’T like it.
Just sayin’.
I can see you’re quite the authority on manners.
Regardless of the manner of your rearing, you very obviously turned out very poorly.
“I’m sorry – but take your feral kids and go fuck a train. If you don’t discipline your kid and they go off on me – I will do it for you and you sure as hell WON’T like it.”
Fortunately for men as discourteous of others’ opinions as yourself, it’s the “pasty faced flits” that don’t spank their children that protect people like you from being disciplined for your poor behavior as an adult. In a more civilized time, if you spoke to a man like that you’d be responsible for your words, and you sure as hell wouldn’t like it. Today, were you taught a lesson in manners, your instructor would be facing charges for battery.
Btw, “Old Man’s War” was a great book.
Lots of butt hurt here. I was spanked as a kid and deserved everyone of them. That said I wasn’t abused and have a good relationship with my parents. I think the key in this whole conversation, which has caused me to contemplate how I discipline my own kiddos (thanks Marko) is that it be as actual discipline and not done in anger. Just like every child does not learn in the same manner, discipline must be tailored to achieve the desired behavior. I’ve found the old stick your nose in the corner works well on my 7 year old because she doesn’t like the sensory deprivation.
However as a member of the local overly militarized jack booted Gestapo (municiple police officer) I am regularly dispatched to calls for parents with 12 to 16 year old children who are out of control and have no respect for their parents or any other authority. I blame the parents for a complete lack of discipline during formative years that causes the rest of society to have to deal with these children until they develop their own discipline or become guests of the state.
Rearing children is probably the most important, difficult job anyone gets and too many people view it as an inconvienience or punishment for a brief ill conceived relationship.
An attention getting swat or Gibbs style smack on the back of the head are a far cry from child abuse. A worse abuse is complete lack of interest or discipline.
I was going to point out that I was not whipped, beaten or abused as a child, but I was spanked. I did not have convoluted explanations and timeouts and removal of privileges, so to argue that beatings are the equivalent of spankings is to engage in the same sort of broad brush argument assassination the Leftists do with every position they take.
That being said, I have to add my voice to that of Roberta X. I think in part because my parents would only spank me at the moment of their anger, It was only a single swat, with a hand or a wooden spoon, or the belt, but it was, I recognize, done in anger. As a consequence, I don’t want to make people mad. I put up with s*** I should not, because I feel that I will need that person’s cooperation later, and I don’t want to make them mad, this really wasn’t that important.
And more than that I will not say.